Vampires to Mortals

[azreal]

I say that Vampires should be allowed to become mortal again because God did not want this curse to go this far. It has gotten out of his hands and therefore should be reconciled.

[artemi]

Well, lets see, here. As, you know, God, one would think that if the vampiric curse had gone too far, it would be a simple enough thing to fix. And if it was somehow outside the power of God’s supreme power (the same power that GAVE the vampires the curse, after all) then… *shakes head*

As for my personal ideas on the matter... well, I am sure you know them, already. Especially White Wolf vampires, where they spend most of their existence fighting for (and loosing, for the most part) everything that make them human.

Blast `em all, I say.

[celest]

is there a middle ground cuz there are some that want mortality, and some that don't. Also there are some that deserve and some that dont.

[thehuntingbeast]

damning ALL of them to hell might be a little harsh, maybe most of them but there are some (supposedly) that are good and deserve to become mortal again. Saying all of them should become mortal is just the same though (especially the evil mothers who deserve everything the pit can throw at them!) Its like going be stereotypes, and as my brother has been saying is that that is just some, maybe even a majority, but not all.
Ah, but who are we to decide the fate of these creatures of the night?

And that concludes my sermon. All those who felt moved or just liked it, feel free to contribute to the tray that will be passed around

[Dyne]

Not all vampires wanted to be vampires. And if we are talking about christian mithos they really don't have any other choice if they want into the kingdom of heaven. They may have lost their life... but they still have their soul and any being with a soul still wants to make himself a better person(?) or what they believe is better. To be mortal again is one perspective a vampire could have on becoming a better being.

Dyne

[The Hatter]

I'll state this clearly so that certain people don't get confused as to my meaning....again.

I look at it from two stand points when it comes to the religious aspects of Vampire, and atonement. One, God states in the bible that "All those who are enemies of my people shall not find a place in my heaven." This is of course speaking about the Philistines. Now I would surmise that all of "God's people" are humans. It could be taken as the Israelites, but many Christians don't have Jewish decent so...yeah, you can throw that whole argument out the window. Now if none of the enemies of God's people will find a place in his heaven, then vampires are truly damned to hell. Not only are they not children of God any longer they have to murder to stay alive. Not to mention that many vampires indulge in all manner of vice and depravity, so you know that the ten commandments are being broken there. So, no redemption, do not pass go, do not collect 200 communion wafers.

On the flip-side of that same coin...

God also states that, "Those who atone for their sins, and make themselves humble before me, will find a place beside me in heaven." This shows that if a vampire atoned for what he/she did, and truly felt sorry for what he had done and repented just like the rest of "God's children" they can get into heaven when they "die".

I take both stances on this situation because when you study theology with the fervor that I do, you can't take a definitive stance on things. Because, though out the bible and other religious texts is that "The Divine's" stance changes though out the text so you have to look at things in more than one light depending on the situation.

[blackskinskywalker]

Certainly it can be said that many Vampires are, in fact, base, blood-sucking monsters. And, just about all of them see their state as the greatest curse of all. The very nature of a Vampire's inner Beast, is certainly one thing that causes the eventual slide into vice and murder.

But then you have to look at something like "Golcanda." How would that affect a Vampires final destination? It is, after all, the final mastery over the Beast and becoming more resistant to the curse. So where does that leave Vampires who have attainted this?

[The Hatter]

I would have to say from everything I've seen that Golconda is in the eye of the beholder. Despite a vampire reaching this state of "transcendence" in understanding of their condition, it is still really up to the vampire if he or she lets it shape their future.

Just because I would reach Golconda say, doesn't mean that I have to be a nice person, or does it mean that I have to stop feeling the pull of my vices or psychoses either. For example: Jhonen, a 6th Generation Malkavian with Delusions of Grandeur mirrored with sudden attacks of paranoid hallucinations, has been striving for centuries to attain Golconda. He finally reaches that state. But down the road he finds a pretty little girl that, he believes, is really a Justicar using vicissitude and kills her and decides to drive though three states wearing her head as a hat, very pleased with himself. Now dose this mean that he's going to be damned for his mental condition and the lack of control over said condition? Or will he slip though the cracks and get away because he didn't deny his nature as someone with mental illness? These are the questions you have to pose to yourself.

Because who knows....someone like Jhonen might make it into your game of Vampire, and you'll have to make those decisions for yourself.

[thehuntingbeast]

Ah, but what if those dirty guys on the streets spouting doomsday and Armageddon prophecies are correct, if only in an indirect or coincidental way, and the world somehow ends (as in a Dogma way and not an "as we know it" way like nuclear winter way a few survivors to repopulate)? What of those vamps truly searching for transcendence but only had a short time to uncover something that takes centuries to understand? Are they doomed because they were embraced too late? Or since they are sincere and try to atone are relieved of their punishment?