This is going to be my Standard rotation tournament legal deck. If there are any Blue Mages left here, gimme input. If there is a flaw, point it out. If you see metagame advantage somewhere, demonstrate. If you wish to do this and are Shinateku, I already know... Last Word, Mirari, Mirari, Mirari, Mirari....
Post by darkprophet on Jun 27, 2005 3:16:06 GMT -5
Just because I'm partial to them i recommend filling one of your sb slots with dampen thought. sometimes denying your opponents the joy of something they treasure is all you need to cripple their will to stand against the storm of your mind. in any respect stream of consciousness is also good. the chance of reusing one of your precious counters or replaying a useful permanent is the will of whatever deity rules the game.
Its a nice deck and I trust you've followed the tournement play well.
For most people who arn't up to code on the standard scene, a big thing hit earlier this year. Wizards nuked Ravager.
With the meta game shot to hell, the second best deck at the time which only lost due to the lack of speed vs. Ravinity, was Tooth and Nail. It resides mainly on land fetch and mild control, usually Plow Unders and Mind Slaver.
Of course, turn four usually meant one of two things: Mephidross / Trisk combo, or Kiki Jiki Sundering Titan. No deck could really match it 100% of the time. This also inspired many more rogue decks to hit the scene.
White weenie hit a major come back and is still a good match, as is Mono Black Control using Ninjas, and of course, our deck at topic, Mono Blue Control.
Three other decks you may see MANY variations on the scene were Ponza (Red Deck Wins/French Red/StrwrsKids Red) harnessing 8 Land Destruction for T/N and fast creatures, mainly Sliths. Some varients ran Beacon Combos and did quite well.
Another, Green Agro, which ran similair to a Zoo style deck: Many Creatures via Beacon and Rude Awakening, Untargetable Creatures with Troll Aescetic, and very nice equips which delivered Coup De Grace (sp) with Jitte and Swords (Fire and Ice main board, L/S SB'd) The deck was fast, it was powerful, but it was contained by black. It did however do much vs. Red and Blue.
The other big deck which varied greatly was Gifts. Two varieties hit it big, 3-Color and 5-Color, the former being the stronger and more focused of the two. They would power Blues Search (Gifts Ungiven) With a counter spell or two, throw in Black Removal (Persecute), some Sun Burst Artifacts, and then Greens Beats, such as Genju and whatnot. Some ran Jittes also. The deck was pretty random in its victory ratios and the five color even more sporadic.
So most regional Plays went Tooth And Nail, White Weenie, Green Agro, and Tied with Mono Blue and Ponza. Now throw in an occasional 3-0 Black victory and 2-1/3-0 Green Agro and thats the average matchings with a bit of variations depending on the area.
Ok enough mindless rambling, time to Critique.
My honest opinion? Mono Blue will fall from a Tier 1 deck to a Tier 3 when Mirrodin rotates out. Without some major help in Ravnica, the deck will see little tournement play.
My reasoning resides on really a couple cards getting cut.
Condescend: A great counter with a semi scry ability attached. Its ran in alot of the victory versions.
Chrome Mox: I hate to admit it but the speed it allowed gave UC a huge advantage. It wont be a huge loss though.
Echoing Truth: The only real way to deal with speed was a bounce that could deliver card advantage. 1 for 2 in most cases. But again, not a huge loss.
And the biggest one I can think of: Vedalken Shackles.
This card is mono blues way of dealing with speed. Without shackles, white weenie and mbc run rampant over it. The card is insanely powerful and gave mono the tournement edge it had been lacking.
In the end, its a good deck but without Ravnica help, mainly in counter and control it will probably fall speed. --- The Post Block looks a great but why cut Meloku?
I don't run Meloku primarily because I haven't seen him run well in MUC. Not discounting his ability, but I'm just making room for better creatures, like Clone. Which reminds me, I expect to see Clone MD for two years now. Between it and Jester's Cap, there should be very few cards to take those slots away. I also cannot imagine a better reply to Kokusho, or Kiki-Jiki. Clone even would have been a good answer to DotV, were he legal. Opponent plays Eternal Witness, you play Clone. ANYTHING they put on the table is now a potential tool for you. I'm almost considering just pulling my Temporal Adepts, but there is no badass bounce in Blue post Mirrodin. I agree, MUC may lose some edge after Ravnica, but with the set supposedly being "Urza block powered", I highly doubt us blue mages will get quite the shafting everyone else expects.
Condescend: I don't run condescend. If I had Rewind, I would. So, Opressive Will makes due. I always ended up sitting on my Condescends in the late game, and unable to cast them in the openning. As a result, I scrapped them in favor of more hard counter.
Chrome Mox: Another resource waster I discounted. THE basic ratio of card advantage is 1:1. CMox is 2:1. Slightly wrong, IMO, that ratio is the kind you need made on a combination basis, not on mana production. In order to maintain it's edge, blue needs to rely on patience and determination, as well as a good sense of when to suck a creature to the face and when to Evacuation the table. Waiting an extra turn to play a spell is something blue is insanely good at, and I would never trade the counter for the mana to play it.
Echoing Truth: Yes. This will hurt. Unfortunately, all blue has to back it up with is Temporal Adept, Boomerang, and Evacuation. Ouch. We don't even get to keep Hibernation. Our green SB card is Withering Gaze. Please... just let me draw cards whilst your shamans and T&N run me over. Ouch. However, the good part of Baleful Stare and Withering Gaze is the fact that we get a peek at the hand. Yay. =/
Vedalken Shackles: Did we ever need the Shackles to win? Probably not. Did it make it easier? Hell yeah! Will there be something equally retarded to make it easier to win? Of course. We can't get complete shit forever, you know. We're blue, not white. Besides: Clone.
Oblivion Stone: I know you weren't covering this one, but I feel it deserves attention anyway. This was the thing that made MUC very ferocious. If all else failed, they just pissed all over the field with O-Stone. And it worked. You play a slew of stuuf, I O-stone and sac. **Shrugs** I guess the fact that next turn all my lands untap and I still hold a hand of hard counters doesn't meen victory... for either of us. I wonder who will draw into victory conditions.... Stalking Stones, Blinkmoth Nexus, Genju of the Falls... you tell me.
Stalking Stones/Blinkmoth Nexus: Speak of the devil... This is where I feel MUC will take the hit the hardest... without manlands, there is one less victory condition. Perhaps it is time to dust off the Tidal Krakens?
Thrist for Knowledge: Ok, what will I use... Sift? Sleight of Hand? Counsel of the Soratami? Ooh Ooh! Ideas Unbound!! or maybe Murmurs from Beyond! This is why I'm running Sensei's Divining Top.
Last Edit: Jul 12, 2005 18:51:44 GMT -5 by eunhathes
Hmm I understand your pretty devote to Counter magic, but a smart player can easily avoid it. Normally by turn six against blue the field can be empty. If you make the first move by throwing down Kiega or T.A. you've left yourself open. Yes you have beats, but any deck that can lose to Kiega or T.A. needs to be refurbished anyways.
Some times people fish for counters and it works quite well. Other times you play speed and match creatures to counters while hoping to top deck one over you. These strategies work well, its a reason why MU could never defeat a trained T&N Player.
Meloku is amazing, I've seen him ran in 3 formats and he did very well. Whether you chump block with a token and just throw the land down on yer turn, or just mass them over time, unless Night of Souls Betrayal (The Wreckonin of MU) is out, he's a power house generator.
I can understand the reluctancing to drop five mana, but at that point speed is probably getting to you. Thats when you throw him down as A) Token Generator, B) 2/4 Flyer that can block any White Weenie creature, Agro Green, MBC (- Yokura) and still survive. I highly recomend dropping a clone for him.
Twincast and Uyo are amongst the same classification when it comes to my MUC: Cool ability/no cool spells. Though one could concievably steal the opponents spells, there is no compelling reason to pull them MD or even SB. The Doctrine of Magic... Your opponent always brings three things to the table: 20 life, 60 cards, and mana sources to play spells. Never expect your opponent to bring what you need to win to the table.
I did recently restancify myself on the MUC deeli:
MUC-A00 eunhathes build, 60 Cards
\\Creatures ( 8 ) 2 Keiga, the Tide Star 2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror 4 Clone
\\Other Spells ( 20 ) 4 Rewind 4 Mana Leak 4 Hinder 4 Genju of the Falls 4 Boomerang
\\Artifacts ( 8 ) 4 Sensei's Divining Top 4 Jester's Cap
\\Land ( 24 ) 4 Quicksand 2 Mikokoro, the Center of the Sea 18 Island
\\Sideboard ( 15 ) 4 Quash 3 Shifting Boarders 3 Evacuation 3 Pithing Needle 2 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
Concessions to you on the Meloku thin. I played a game agains one of my bros, and held the field with him. Though my brothers are no measure of skill in players, it does show the potential controlling of only four tokens. I can only imagine what two will do.
Now my problem is where the hell do I find three[/i] Pithing Needles! Oh, yeah. And the whole Shifting Boarders SB thing is bothersome too. I guess I should find a more solid SB card, huh?
may i just say that this is awsome to watch/read. Two of the best Magic players I know just sitting and discussing Blue tactics. I love it. Now we just need to throw Prophet into this mix. He may be Black at heart, but we all remember Ice Cream. Well, those of us from Ohio do atleast.
The revised looks a bit better but in regards to Twin Cast.
Remember, it's not just Cranials, Distress, Burn Beacons, Burn, T&N, Scepter Spells, Bounce, and whatnot your copying, it's also your Mana leaks and hinders, boomerangs and everything else in your hand.
Twin Casts power for blue resides on the fact of this:
My opponent announced Cranial Extraction. It goes on the stack.
You announce Twin Cast, copying the Cranial Extraction.
Allow your Twin Cast to resolve and name a card. Now, once your copy of Cranial Extraction resolves. Announce a Counter onto their Cranial. Let the counter resolve and there you have it, you've stolen their play and took a large chunk from their deck.
Think of Twin Cast as: Any Instant/Sorc in your hand with a casting cost of U U. Simply, it makes room for itself. Two Twin Casts, Two Hinders, Two Boomerangs, it's really a remarkable card.
Your Meloku army can bite the dust with a Hideous Laughter. Why counter when you can twin cast, clear the board and play the second Meloku (with so much draw, MUC usually ends with 2 Melokus in the final hand).
Another comment I forgot to throw in: Wheres the magpies? Thieving Magpie is probably as good as the genju for a few reasons, and a bit better and worst for the same:
4 for a 1/3 Flyer isn't too great, but your essentially spending 3 for a 3/2 with the risk of losing a land. If you use it as a blocker you also fall victim to Eradicate Islands (I know it rarely happens but I've taken top eight because my opponent blocked with his Genju of Cedars). Magpies work well, no one really blocks them unless they need to, and with good bounce in the deck, you should be able to draw two cards and inflict 1 damage per turn. Think of long game, that extra card per turn, extra blocker, and potential (if little) Threat to your opponent makes a difference.
I would limit down to one Mikokoro, mainly for two reasons: The legendary factor and with Meloku, you want to play lands consistantly tho it's not a huge set back.
With only 4 Bounce, 4 Hard Counters (4 cost rewind) and 8 Soft Counters (ones your opponent can get around with either paying 3 or Shuffle mechanics) you want to deny your opponent card draw, even if it speeds you. You can use other draw mechanisms via blue that won't help your opponent.
I'd also limit myself to as much colorless land as possible, 16 of your 28 colored cards require double blue and not to mention you'll need one free for Genju every turn. Though slim, the possibility of getting stuck on one island really hinders your deck, as well as your hinders... sorry for the pun.
--
As for Pithing Needle? I wouldn't worry about them. They are not exactly as rare as most think, every box I have seen cracked, which is about 10-12 have has one pithing needle in it. I'd run Annuls in side board though, they do make a good stance vs. Jitte and Pithing Needle. ---
Twin Casts power for blue resides on the fact of this:
My opponent announced Cranial Extraction. It goes on the stack.
You announce Twin Cast, copying the Cranial Extraction.
Allow your Twin Cast to resolve and name a card. Now, once your copy of Cranial Extraction resolves. Announce a Counter onto their Cranial. Let the counter resolve and there you have it, you've stolen their play and took a large chunk from their deck.
I am confused by this. The last time I knew you could interrupt the stack like that was waaay back in 6th Edition rules (which we don't talk about anyways, soo...). If I understand this right: Opp: Declare Cranial Extraction Me: Declare Twincast Cranial Extraction ** Roots through Opp deck, kills stuff ** Me: Ok, so now I Mana Leak. Opp: Damn. ? is that how that works?
Thieving Magpie: I'm just uneasy about him. I frequent SCG a lot for my meta and whatnot, so the opinions posted therein make up a good portion of my stance. I have had limited degrees of success with Magpie, and as such have ceased his running. Over Genju, most likely. I will experiment.
Annul: I hate to point out the obvious, but this is a post Mirrodin bloc deck. Without Annul in 9th or another equally annoying counter in Ravnica, there will be little against those cards. =/
BTW: Could you post what you would build for MUC? Jus so I can see. thnx!
Remember, after announcing a spell, the it goes on the stack. Players then pass priority to see if anything will respond above it.
Every time something on the stack resolves, players once again take turns with priority, so it is possible to build the stack high, let it drop to the original spell, and then restack ontop. This makes Twin Cast very powerful.
I use SCG only for deck builds really and tourney results.
OK yeah my mistake on Annul, but lets cross fingers for Ravnica.
My build on mono blue? I couldn't, not after Mirrodin Block rotates out. But I could imagine a blue deck using Erayo and D-Top with much bounce surfacing but not winning without splash. Turn 1 Island then Divining Top Turn 2 Island then Erayo Turn 3 Island then Second Top.
But I'm building a G/U deck using Cloudhoof, Sakashimi, Meishin the MindCage (sp), and Petals of Insight.
The mindcage is secondary really and not neccessary for the deck to win.
--
I think blue may come in as a splash card. The control aspect won't be as sought as perhaps the draw or mill portion of the color for the time being. Of Course, only Ravnica may tell.
Remember, after announcing a spell, the it goes on the stack. Players then pass priority to see if anything will respond above it.
Every time something on the stack resolves, players once again take turns with priority, so it is possible to build the stack high, let it drop to the original spell, and then restack ontop. This makes Twin Cast very powerful.
That's broken. I thought that got left behind during the 6th Edition dark ages. ** shudders **
Anyway, the problem I have is there is no environ data for Ravnica, so my SB is a hit/miss situation. I can tell there will be a strong RedDeckWins and definite x/G prescence (like there isn't already) as well as x/B (Kokusho and other goodies abound). But, all those are hampered by the Clone. I'm sorry, but I see him being just that damned useful. Observe:
I play Clone and declare:
Kokusho (nothing happens)
Kiki Jiki (OMFG whered my vic condition go1!?)
Eternal Witness (yes, she will somehow end up across the table from me. AT A TOURNEY! and you know it. **JUDGE!**)
Keiga (here, you taek my TA and i'll take yours. durh.)
Horobi (enough said)
Sakashima (well then. Lets just muss everything up!)
I think i've proven my point there. Also, clone can be used proactively... kinda like another Magpie (which I do liek better than the Genju's).
Ravnica is going to be very heavy on multicolored spells. With that said.
I like Sakashima much better than clone, the self bounce and the fact you can clone your own legend like Kiega or Meloku and not worry about them dieing.
Why would you want to waste your clone on Horobi when it lets your bounce turn into solid destruction. And at the moment, no deck utilizes Kiki Jiki but T&N and Intruder alarm, and both are usually game enders when Kiki hits so copying him would be relatively moot.
With single blue, I'm sure he'll be a great splash card, especially with Green or Black
Maybe one Sakashima and a slew (3-4) Clones. I don't care too much for the fickelness of only one Sakashima. Usually, isn't killing legends is almost always superior to letting two sit on the table.
-1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror +1 Sakashima, the Impostor
I read an article the other day of another type of MUC that runs artifact heavy with the Urzatron. Here's the article's deck:
