Economics

[Atreides Conscript]

To give you a bit of background here:

Laissez-faire capitalism is capitalism with absolutely NO government involvement in the economic system.

Capitalism is an economic system where all businesses are owned and operated privately, but with some government regulation (such as minimum wage, labor laws, and safety regulations).

Socialist Reformed Capitalism is an economic system with a capitalist basis, but with reforms similar to socialism. Such reforms could include nationalized health-care, national welfare programs, government-run projects, social security, and higher governmental controls on business.

Socialism is an economic system in which the government controls large-scale business, but smaller businesses are still owned privately. The government regulates such small businesses in wage, labor laws, safety regulations, etc. The government also taxes differently on the basis of income and property, and refunds differently on the basis of economic status (basically taking from the rich to give to the poor).

Utopian Socialism, or Communism, is an economic system designed to make everybody equal in the eyes of the government. Socio-economic classes are eliminated entirely. The entire market economy is stabilized and maintained by the government, and taxation is eliminated in favour of business income that goes to the government anyway. Refunds are handled through the standard wage. The government regulates who has what job by handling all applications for each position. Everyone is equal in the economic sense.

The lack of an economic system speaks for itself.

Rules of this poll....
1. You must post why you voted the way you did.
2. Your post must include support for your decision.
3. Standard Temple rules still apply.

If your post is in violation of rules 2 or 3... then it will be subsequently deleted. This is a debate section, not a section for people to quote opinions and be done with it. The intent of this thread is debate over the subject, so be prepared for that when you first vote. If you are not willing to accept the nature of this thread, then don't vote in the first place. Voters can be monitored by the administration, so we know who did and didn't vote.

[blackskinskywalker]

First off, I am all for capitalism as a basis for an economic system. The general rule of thumb being that a person should put forth some effort or work to make a living. What's more is that the more a person would work, the higher they can raise themselves. Thus, freeloaders can be encouraged to work, aftere all, how does freeloading help a person better themselves? However, the faults of total and pure capitalism are well documented in our own history. We cannot trust every business person to be completly honest and fair. Thus comes in the socialist reforms. Certain restrictions and regulation must be made to protect employees and employers.

Socialist reforms should also come into play via welfare like programs. After all, some people actually cannot work for themselves and efforts should be made to help those who need help or those who have actaully just fallen upon hard times. I believe some would call this the "burden of society."

So basically I'm all for a capitalist-like system. Sure it has it's problems, inspiring greed in some, but the faults can be minimized with enough control. Plus, I believe it is also the system that could be implemented (in a realistic sense) the easiest and work the smoothest.

[The Hatter]

I voted for Socialism because it is the most ideal system for the economic structure of this country right now. I mean, look at the rising prices....of Everything! If we had a system of government that would look to screw everyone out of their money because "We have to find the dirty Terrorists with the Nucular bombs and Weapons of Massdestruction...we have to ooh look at the kitty....did I mention Weapons of Mass destruction?" Sorry folks, I can't pass up an opportunity to dog on Bush. Socialism is ideal for many nations, look at Finland, Amsterdam, Norway and many of the other Slavic/Nordic countries and cities. They run off a form of Scocialism...and they are doing great!
I know I know, anyone with a brainstem can tell me "Even if it is ideal for this country to be socialist, There would be civil war and death and poverty because of it." Is that true? Yes.....Do I know it to be true? Yes. But in the words of the Great George Carlin...."It's fucked up...but I can dream can't I?"

[Atreides Conscript]

I believe that we could use one more person to take up their stance in this debate to make it nice and well rounded. Two or more further is fine... but we need one more or else this sits here and collects dust.

[ravenstorme]

I voted for Socialist Reformed Capitalism. I strongly believe that capitalism is a great economic foundation. Privately owned businesses allow for the citizens who wish to take the time and effort to be able to bring themselves wealth. I feel that people who work hard to better themselves should be rewarded for it and the people who do not work quite as much should not be rewarded on the same level. However, I find health insurance companies to be pure evil. To deny a person medical coverage because they don't make enough money to pay the insane rates they set is inethical. I believe every person should be allowed the right to medical assistance. Yes, I know a hospital cannot turn you away because you do not have insurance, but the bills you can incur from an accident or severe illness can put you in debt for the rest of your life, ruining your chance to buy a house or car. I believe reforms like these would make our country a better place to live.

[Atreides Conscript]

We now have three members in this debate rather than just myself (that's right... I get to have fun too). This means that we are ready to begin. We will welcome any other members who wish to join at later times, but this won't wait any longer.

Rules Addition: NO ad hominem attacks. Ad hominem attacks are where you attack the source of the assertion rather than the assertion itself. Basically discrediting a person's assertion by using who they are as your evidence. This is considered flaming and comes with all of the standard repercussions. Use factual evidence based outside of your opponents' personal lives to back up your points. Consider it as if you haven't ever met a single one of these members before for the purposes of this debate.

Last thing... this debate is of the sanctioned variety. It officially ends on the 16^th of this month (August, 2005). The debate will continue to be here and will be open to further discussion, but the official winner (economic system, not person) will be decided by Eunhathes on that date based upon the evidence within this thread. For the record... that's right, the poll vote doesn't count for the end result.

[gryphonpoet]

In a perfect place (*gag*) there would be no economy. Each person would be self-sufficient and any economics would be through barter and completely voluntary.

Sadly, there ain't no sech (sic) animal.

The next best thing to that, is for the government to interfere at the least possible degree in the affairs of the individual. Personal freedom is a very important concept to me, even to the point that it galls me to have to pay taxes. Sales tax, income tax, Recovery fees on cable are all reprehensible to me.

I voted "capitalism" because of the real choices, it provides the best system for individuality and also provides a real opportunity for the individual to improve in the way(s) he or she seek to improve. Whether financially, physically or spiritually, capitalism gives the most choice, most flexibility and most personal freedom of the options listed.

Laissez-faire is merely corporate mob-rule. Eventually, it will choke out any growth or innovation, as with the "Panics" of the 19th century in the US.

Socialist-reformed capitalism is where the US is currently in its evolution as a nation. The reality of the situation is that the bureaucrats bog down the system and override the helps because of ignorance, apathy, lack of status inside the infrastructure or some combination of the three.

Socialism is effective in some mid-sized nations. Personally, I would be able to live in a truly socialist state, provided there was no boundary on my personal freedom. Unfortunately, there is no example of that currently among the political powers of the world.

Communism is a totalitarian system and therefore in antipathy with personal freedom. 'Nuff sed.

Unfortunately, human nature steps into play when discussing possible economic systems (greed, sloth, compassion, apathy etc) so it is impossible to judge the systems on how they meet the individual's needs day-to-day. In a real world sense, I will stay with "capitalism" for my vote, despite its shortcomings. It provides me with what I want most. Choices.